Fred Shand murder trial: 15-year-old defendant says altercation two days before fatal stabbing caused ‘this big mess’

The younger defendant charged with murder said he felt ‘upset’ seeing a picture of the 16-year-old Fred Shand for the first time because of “how it happened and how it went down”.The 15-year-old defendant continued to give evidence for the remainder of Friday afternoon (July 21) at Northampton Crown Court, following the first instalment where the court heard his views on why people carry knives.

The jury were directed to look at a photo of someone’s phone, depicting a message sent to a group chat by the 15-year-old defendant in November last year.

Talking about someone the court knows to be a friend of Fred’s, who ended up in a relationship with the same young female the defendant liked, the message included lines such as “giving me too much talk I might have to stab him” and wanting to leave “bare holes” in his body.

The 15-year-old defendant told the jury about arguments and threats the two of them had exchanged online, including in a Snapchat group chat like the one the court saw.

The defendant said he did not mean what he said, or had any intention to carry out the threats. The court heard the message was not taken seriously by the recipients in the group chat as hoped by the 15-year-old, which made him feel “weak”.

The court heard about the situation involving the young female both the defendant and one of Fred’s friends liked. The defendant believed the romantic feelings were reciprocated after they had spoken for around three weeks, before she messaged to let him know that she liked the other male and did not want to “mug off” the defendant.

Having felt “jealous” despite telling the female he was okay with it, the court heard this situation occurred “a day or two” before the Snapchat message shown to the court was sent by the defendant.

The court heard that after the defendant then responded to the young female’s Instagram post to say her new boyfriend looked like a “nerd” out of “jealousy and upset”, the defendant was added by him on Snapchat where the situation escalated – with the pair exchanging “negative and unpleasant things”.

The message exchanges continued in group chats with tens of people back in November, the court heard, before they heard about the incident at Taco Bell in Walter Tull Way on March 20.

When asked to recall the incident while giving evidence, the 15-year-old defendant explained that while he was passing Taco Bell that day he saw a friend of the young male he had argued with over the girl he liked in November.

The court knows this is also a friend of Fred’s, but the defendant confirmed he did not know who Fred was at the time.

The jury heard the defendant punched the male he had come across in Taco Bell three times and pulled him by his hood.

The defendant, who was dressed in a beanie and surgical face mask at the time, made the male aware of who he was by telling him his Snapchat username before walking off. As the male who was attacked by the defendant was involved in the back and forth messaging in the group chats months earlier, the jury heard he would have known who the 15-year-old defendant was.

When asked by the defence barrister as to why the defendant felt the need to respond with violence to the way the male had spoken to him in the group chats, he said that he had “had enough”, “wanted to teach him a lesson” and “get him to back off”.

The court heard the defendant wanted the male to go back to his friendship group and tell them about what happened so they would “back off”.

Addressing the jury about how he felt about the Taco Bell incident now, the 15-year-old said: “It’s really wrong. I can’t believe I done that and tried to act tough. Tried to get a reputation for what?”

Mr Hynes KC asked the defendant that four months on from the altercation in Taco Bell, what has changed about his mindset towards his actions?

After a pause, the defendant replied: “Coming to jail. Thinking of it different. Seeing everything and what I have done. Me attacking [him] has caused a bigger mess. Hearing my parents cry on the phone. My religion.”

The defence barrister continued by asking if he felt this way just because he was in jail or for other reasons, and the 15-year-old said he had caused “this big mess” and “someone passed away”.

“How do you feel about Fred now as you stand there?” asked Mr Hynes KC.

The 15-year-old defendant replied to say that before March 22, he had never met Fred in real life and only knew him by his Snapchat username. The jury heard he “didn’t know how he looked and how he was as a person”.

The defendant went on: “Can’t think of him too much as I don’t know him at all.”

When asked how it made him feel seeing a picture of Fred for the first time, the 15-year-old said “upset” because of “how it happened and how it went down”.

As the evidence proceeded, the court heard the 15-year-old defendant was in possession of a knife during the Taco Bell incident – despite not knowing he was going to see the male he attacked there.

Responding to questions on why he was carrying a knife, the defendant told the court it was so he could use it to “scare” people if he was outnumbered.

The defendant believed there was a chance something would happen to him if he came across a certain group of people and that if they were to produce a knife, it would “scare them” to see his was bigger and he would not have to use it.

When asked by the defence barrister what the defendant would have done if another person’s knife was bigger than his, he said he would “run”.

The defendant told the court he did not produce the knife in Taco Bell and the male he attacked was not aware that was in possession of one.

The 15-year-old told the court he would only have gotten it out if the male in Taco Bell had produced one himself, and would have only used it to scare him rather than to actually use it.

The 15-year-old defendant is due to continue giving the rest of his evidence on Monday (July 24).

What else has happened in the trial so far?

The two teenage boys from Northampton, who were aged 14 and 16 at the time but are now 15 and 17, pleaded not guilty to their murder charge before Northampton Crown Court on April 24. They cannot be named for legal reasons.

Miss Jane Bickerstaff KC, the prosecuting barrister, kickstarted the trial on Wednesday (July 12) with the prosecution opening after the jury was sworn in on Monday (July 10).

The court heard the younger defendant, aged 15, faces an additional charge of carrying an article with a blade or a sharp point in a public place – which he has already pleaded guilty to.

The court heard 16-year-old Rohan Shand, known as Fred, died after being stabbed near the Cock Hotel in Harborough Road at about 3.35pm on March 22 while on his way home from Kingsthorpe College.

Miss Bickerstaff KC, of the prosecution, told the court it was the 15-year-old male defendant that carried out the stabbing and he was accompanied by the 17-year-old in the planned “joint enterprise attack” – shown by CCTV footage in court.

The stabbing followed an altercation outside McDonalds in the Drapery, which the court heard took place the day before (March 21).

A male had his “face sliced with a belt buckle” during that “dispute” and the two defendants were a friend of his. The co-defendants believed Fred Shand was at the forefront of the group responsible.

The court heard that after the co-defendants arrived at Kingsthorpe College later than planned on March 22, they rode on scooter towards the town centre via Harborough Road.

The entire incident was over in seven seconds after Fred, his teen friend and the two co-defendants came together for the first time at 3.34pm on March 22 on the green in Harborough Road, the court heard.

The co-defendants fled the scene on foot to the home of the 17-year-old, where they were detained by police shortly after – along with what is believed to be the murder weapon, a second knife and clothing worn during the incident.

During the second day of the trial (Thursday, July 13) – the first in which witnesses were called on to give evidence by the prosecution – the court saw 360 degree imagery to give them an understanding of the area, as well as video footage that has been recovered from March 22.

On the morning of the third day of the trial (Friday, July 14), the pathologist that conducted Fred’s post-mortem examination gave her expert evidence on the cause of death.

This was followed by evidence given by the teen friend who was with Fred on the day of the fatal stabbing.

Kickstarting the second week (Tuesday, July 18), the two eyewitnesses who followed the co-defendants home after the incident were called to give evidence.

The final live witness took to the stand to conclude the morning sitting, when the court heard he saw the blade pulled from the younger defendant’s trousers.

Five written witness statements were read aloud to conclude Tuesday’s sitting (July 18) – one of which detailed a nine second phone call the 15-year-old defendant had with a friend ahead of the incident.

The final eight written statements were heard the following day (Wednesday, July 19), including five from members of the police force.

Ahead of the prosecution closing its case, the jury were taken step-by-step through key moments which led to the Kingsthorpe College pupil’s death.

Having been told the agreed facts of the case, the jury heard the 17-year-old defendant has pleaded guilty to being in possession of a bladed article in Harborough Road on the day of the fatal stabbing.

The 15-year-old defendant stood to give evidence in court for the first time on Friday afternoon (July 21), when the court heard him say young people buy knives “for show” and to “look cool”.

The trial continues.