Saints farewell interview: Reece Marshall

Not only because he has joined a construction company, Rectory Homes, but because he is determined to keep developing in the world of rugby union.

Marshall has moved from full-time to part-time as he will be playing and coaching at National One side Chinnor next season while working as an assistant site manager.

And that will give him the chance to begin building not only but two potential careers.

Because alongside doing his qualifications and working in his new job, he will also be helping to mentor the Chinnor defence, while leading it on the field of play.

Marshall, who became a father for the first time almost a year ago, is juggling plenty of things as he pursues personal improvement and financial security.

But his fresh start is clearly something he needed after what was a turbulent career at Saints, the club where he came through the Academy and spent nine years representing at different levels.

"Working for Rectory Homes offers me a career outside of rugby so I was willing to change up," Marshall explained.

"Ideally, if the money was right and the opportunity was right, I would have stayed in full-time rugby, and I still have that mindset.

"It's not me thinking I'm just retiring from full-time rugby because that's not the case.

"This was the best opportunity at the moment and it's a lovely place to live, down Oxford way.

"We moved down here a couple of months ago and it's a complete change of lifestyle really.

"I'm enjoying the different lifestyle.

"You can't really beat full-time rugby in a way, but you have to do what's right at the time.

"You miss seeing the Saints boys every day, especially after being there for nine years. I was part of the furniture really, but this is an exciting move for me now.

"I did speak to a few Championship clubs and made contact with a Prem club.

"But Chinnor asked what I wanted to do outside rugby and I was offered a job as assistant site manager and told they would pay for all my qualifications so I thought it sounded amazing.

"Their principal sponsor is this construction company, like Travis Perkins or cinch are at Saints, and it's high-end building, really interesting.

"I heard from my agent that the club and the sponsor are really good at helping you transition from rugby if you can't get a full-time playing contract.

"We train on Tuesdays and Thursday nights.

"The club I spoke to in the Prem, the money's not there. It's not in a greedy way, but I've got a family to look after and a mortgage to pay.

"I'd have had to relocate so they would have had to make it worth it."

With rugby all he had ever really known in the world of work, it wasn't an easy decision to exit the pro game.

But Marshall knew it was for the best, especially when the Premiership move he had expected to materialise didn't.

"I'd got my head around it in the last year or so that it's very much a business and there's only so much loyalty at any club in the game," Marshall said.

"If you play well, you get paid well and you get a contract. That's just a fact.

"I got my head around it quite early but I actually found out I wouldn't be staying at Saints quite late, in March time - for what reason I don't know.

"A lot of lads found out in January time so I was quite optimistic that they would offer me something and I thought they were just working out what the package would be.

"I then found out I wasn't going to be offered a new deal and I thought it was a bit late, but I was quite relaxed because within two days I got an offer from another Premiership club.

"Unfortunately it didn't work out and they moved the goalposts down the line and I was like 'I'm not going to be taken the mickey out of'.

"That was a bit disappointing really and that was probably a bigger blow because I had faith I would find somewhere else and they were giving me all the right signs.

"They told me the contract would come through but it didn't happen.

"I guess I'm old enough that I've heard enough stories about how boys have been treated so I was aware of the worst.

"I had a conversation with my agent and he said he'd spoken to a couple of Championship clubs but if I was going to take a step out of full-time rugby because I couldn't find anything I also had to think what the best opportunity would be for me outside of it.

"Most Championship clubs are training Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and then playing the game on the Saturday, then you've got a few full-time teams.

"My agent told me National One were really good with work and I went and had a chat with Chinnor and I was really impressed.

"They are an ambitious club and they want to get to the Championship.

"I went to meet Rectory Homes a couple of days later, spoke to their COO and it was brilliant because he asked me what I want to do and he told me they had a position for me if I wanted it.

"They said they would pay for all my qualifications and it's been awesome.

"Another thing Chinnor also offered - I've done my level three coaching now - was that I could do a coaching role.

"Chinnor were keen for a defence coach and that's right up my street because that's what I want to do.

"I've coached the Uni, I've coached local rugby clubs and this will be the highest level I've ever coached at as well as playing.

"It's all standing me in good stead for the future.

"If a full-time contract came my way I'd have a look at it, but this is the best opportunity for me at the moment.

"I'm excited to go and potentially be that bigger fish in a smaller pond and give some of the knowledge I've got over the years.

"I don't want to die off as a player - I want to be the best player in the league.

"I don't just want to pick up my paycheck, I want to play well.

"If I can coach the team alongside that and put my knowledge across then that's a bonus and it's the next step anyway.

"If we go up next year and our defence is the best in the league, my name's going to be on it.

"Whether I stay on at Rectory or I get offered a position as a defence coach at a Championship club, that could be the start of my career.

"You never know, 10 years' time you could see me back as a defence coach at Saints because I started so early and that's the way I've looked at it."

Marshall will be paid by Rectory and Chinnor while receiving match fees, meaning he is able to support his young family more than if he had remained in full-time rugby.

And with the Premiership salary cap being cut, it is a sign of the times that an experienced player such as Marshall is having to look for other ways to pay the bills.

"You're not earning the kind of money you need for what you put your body through," he said.

"It's what clubs can afford to pay, but rugby is at a tipping point because what you'll get is the top dogs will ask for what they want and they will get it because it keeps businesses afloat.

"Northampton having Courtney Lawes and Dan Biggar is massive for them but the middle ground will miss out because there isn't the money there.

"As a younger lad, it's not about money at all because you've got no responsbility - it's purely about putting on that Saints shirt.

"So if Saints turn around and say here's a three-year deal for £25,000, £30,000 then you're signing it.

"It's why there are so many middle players who have gone this year because they can't justify playing for that money.

"When my agent is looking around, those are the figures that are coming out from clubs.

"I'm a 60-cap, 27-year-old Premiership rugby player and I can get more working at Sainsburys."

Marshall was never truly able to establish himself as first-choice hooker at Saints, mainly because injuries hit him at regular and unfortunate intervals.

"I definitely don't have regret, but I just think injuries didn't play there part for me and it was nothing I could do anything about," he said. "They were all serious injuries that came out of nowhere.

"It wasn't due to a lack of professionalism, rehab or training - they were all freak injuries.

"I got the worst injury at the worst time.

"I injured my hamstring a week before the (2018 Premiership play-off) semi-final after playing 24 games that season.

"I thought I would start the semi-final and the final and it was pretty brutal for me to get that injury.

"I thought I would push on because I was only 23 then.

"It sort of flipped everything on its head.

"I worked my way back into the team and then I got a concussion.

"Sam (Matavesi) took his chance, which I knew he would, and so he took the lead and there was only one more spot to take, and I guess I was the one out of contract.

"Mikey (Haywood) was still signed on, Fishy (James Fish) is a bit younger than me so that was it.

"It's frustrating really but I've had loads of great memories and it's been brilliant.

"I would have bitten your hand off to have one game for Saints and I would have bitten your other hand off for 50.

"Looking back on it, I wish I had played 100 times but unfortunately my body meant it wasn't meant to be.

"It's all about timing and arguably there was a very fortunate time in my career when Mikey was out for a while and Dylan (Hartley) pulled out of the team that year.

"Myself and James Fish played a lot that season (2017/18) and we both got established after that.

"James has continued that and I'm sure he'll go well for as long as he can.

"Unfortunately for me, when I was on top, my body gave up on me.

"I don't look back and think I could have done anything differently."

Marshall's first year as a Saints Academy player began in 2013, with the club going on to claim its first Premiership title - as well as European Challenge Cup glory - a year later.

"It was awesome to be part of that squad, even as just an Academy player," he said.

"I think it helped me throughout my career, especially when I had bad injuries.

"It helped me around the club because I was part of that title-winning clan and there's not a lot of them left from that era now.

"There's TC (Tom Collins), Courts (Courtney Lawes) and Alex Waller who were part of that core group."

But the success of Saints back in 2014 and in 2015, when they finished top of the regular-season table for the first time, had implications for some of the club's younger players.

"We had such a successful Wandies team - we used to win everything - but we never really got a crack in the first team. It took a lot of injuries to get that," Marshall said.

"Lewis (Ludlam) is a year younger than me and none of us had really played.

"Lewis broke into the team in Boydy's first year (2017/18) and that's when I first broke into it properly as well.

"If you look back at it now, they were probably too loyal to those boys who won the league.

"They were probably at their peak when they finished top the year after and after that year of losing in the semis to Sarries, that's when things should have changed a bit and new blood should have come through.

"It just shows you how much rugby has changed because Jim's demise was probably being so loyal to those players, and it was hard for him not to be.

"Those players had won us our only Premiership title and they came first the year after so how do you faze them out? It's an art in itself, that man management."

Marshall's first Premiership start came at a time when Saints were starting to really struggle.

He actually scored in the game against Saracens but Saints were thrashed …

The hooker then headed up the steps to conduct a memorable interview full of honesty and far more expansive than you would expect from such a young player.

But he had suffered a serious foot injury in that game that didn't become clear until before the game the game against Leicester the following weekend, ruling him out once again.

"I made my first Prem start when we were getting hosed every week. I scored against Sarries in that game and I got chucked in with the sharks because Jim said I had to do the interview after that," Marshall said.

"We were getting battered every week and I had to give an honest interview, which I got a lot of credit for.

"But I wouldn't change any of it. It was brilliant.

"I had 15 appearances in those first couple of years and I was in and out.

"I made eight sub appearances in one year and I made my mark that year, which I think was 2015, but then I got that Lisfranc injury and I was out again."

Time after time, Marshall would get up a head of steam only to be sidelined again.

That led to him remaining down the pecking order at Saints, so much so that he was having to go to Bedford Blues to get game time last season.

"It's sort of a catch-22 really because it's like if you play well there, you'll play - but you sort of know that's not true," Marshall said. "But if you don't play, there's no chance.

"I played for Saints against London Irish last season after coming back from my shoulder op that I had last summer - something I sort of wish I never had because it was optional - and it was my first start back.

"I didn't have an amazing game, I had 40 minutes and it wasn't good or bad - just a standard comeback game.

"It was two rounds of the PRC so I played the first one and I remember thinking 'I didn't do my best but there's always next week'.

"We got to the next week and I was told I wouldn't play the next week - it was going to be Mikey and Fish.

"But Fishy had been playing and I felt he could afford to have the rest because he also played 40 the week before.

"But Boydy then said to me that Bedford needed a hooker that week and they were playing down at Cornish Pirates.

"I just said no. I said 'my daughter is two months old and I'm going to Bedford three times a week, you've canned me for the next round of the PRC'.

"Mikey and Fish had been playing rugby and I could have been given that game time but they decided not to and then they were trying to send me down to Cornwall.

"It's like they were taking the p**s out of me really.

"Boydy said Bedford really needed a hooker and I said 'well send Fish or Mikey down there because I need to play'.

"I didn't play either game because I said no.

"When you're there with the Bedford boys it's good because they're welcoming and I know a lot of them from the Wanderers days like Alex Woolford and Alex Day.

"But when you're asked to go and play for them at Cornish Pirates after having 40 minutes of rugby having not played for Saints for four months, you're like 'no, I'm not doing it'."

With Saints not making use of him, Marshall was handed the chance to go on loan at London Irish for three months.

But then injury stuck yet again, leaving him in what he admits was 'a dark place' mentally.

"It was a great opportunity when London Irish came knocking but then I tore my calf!," he explained.

"I played 20 minutes, had a really good start to the game and I hadn't had 20 minutes of rugby like that for a long time. I was running round and hitting people - I was loving it.

"When I tore my calf, that was the closest I'd been to being like 'I'm done'.

"I started against Pau in France and 20 minutes in I tore my calf.

"That was one of the darkest places I've been in terms of mental health.

"I remember sitting in the hotel room and thinking I couldn't deal with it, but my partner was really supportive.

"After I'd got over that initial shock, I spoke to Irish and they told me to go back to Saints, do rehab and I could come back.

"I really focused hard on my rehab, came back after three or four weeks and it was too early but I was under a time constraint because I only had three months at Irish.

"I knew at that point Saints might not want me but I felt I had a massive opportunity at Irish.

"I went back, trained well and they didn't want to risk me that week but I travelled for the game at Saracens.

"I got to the end of the warm up and I pulled it again.

"I went back in and I told them I didn't want to waste their time. They had been good to me and they would let me do my rehab there but I was staying away from home in a hotel every night.

"I wasn't seeing my daughter and I needed to go back to Northampton.

"If they still needed me I could go back, but I knew I couldn't rush back and I had to get as strong as I could.

"I played against Newcastle in the Premiership Rugby Cup, came on after two minutes and hadn't played for months.

"I had a really good game but about two hours before was when I got the phone call from the Prem call telling me the offer they'd given me was no longer there.

"So it's been pretty hard, but I'm excited for what the future holds for me now."